And it said, Id like to come down, could you please be my mother? And she was just sobbing. Its crazy. Martha and Ro are back with another BeWild Files episode of Bewildered to discuss things that YOU, their listeners, are trying to figure out. Theyre like weird little suitcases, like a really heavy block of metal with a handle on it. Melbourne, Australia. And we were like its sort of like a family. Based on the psychology course she teaches at Yale -- the most popular class in the universitys 300-year history -- Laurie will take you through the latest scientific research and share some surpr A feminist lifestyle podcast on a mission to stay curious, build empathy and raise hell. And you are not in the equation. No BS. And then you try to do it before theyre conscious of wanting it. welcome! 2. And for me, its spirit, right? Rowan Mangan: And so one of the other people who lived there asked me to come and do some writing work with her over a few months. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. They are the coolest people. Rowan Mangan: And you can go like write as many things as you can, until you get to something you dont want to do and then ask yourself, do you really have to do it? And its like, dont you want to know about how awesome it is to have a fight when theres a referee? Because well have really different experiences of that because you had already sort of, and youre older than me and so you were coming out in a different time and everything. Its the truth. We are using cookies to give you the best experience on our website. Pedestals the wrong word for lesbians, isnt it? Karen had done it all too. If you can create from that space, you can create anything: a relationship, a mood, a food, an object of some kind. Time I learned a little something about this adopted country of mine. Not necessarily like sexually, but just like time and like all of the things, attention. Martha Beck: And we just always talk about imagining the truest most beautiful relationship or family and you clearly have done it. And so I just got back from South Africa and all of them had been sick while I was gone and the baby was sick, but then the baby got well and all the adults got sick. Rowan Mangan: Its sexualizing yourself in front of people over and over and over again, that is traumatic. Rowan Mangan: Rowan Mangan: How Martha felt - after years of marriage to Karen - when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Martha Beck: And we also are a ecosystem that is very close and so we do talk about how the hell do people do it with two people. If people come and explain to me where Im entitled and how Im assuming my right to get things from them, Im like, Oh my God, Im so sorry. And I changed my behavior. 4. What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. Well, Im not big enough or good enough or whatever it is. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Period. What does a bad codependent do? I have a little window seat that is cozy. But the first thing that comes to mind is something that happened several decades ago, but the echo of it still resonates. Dont you? This time the question comes from Ohio listener Bev, who hopes to learn more about codependencywhat it means and how it applies to her life as a mother and caregiver. Yes. More about that someday. And I dont know how other people experience it. Photo by Rowan Mangan . In this episode, Marty and I dissect the ways we can be shamed and how we can move away from that into what feels true for ourselves. Yes. And it is a VIBE. And then it also can happen, and a lot of people, when it was about addiction, its when you hit bottom, like an addicts hit bottom when they have some gruesome experience? Martha Beck: Right, and I dont want to talk about happenings. 2. . Its just tells us more about our relationship than anything else, I feel like our conflicts. 3. [Music fades] Hi, Im Martha Beck! So its two different things, correct? I would say so. We knew that we were solid. Rowan Mangan: I love it. How so? So to say this, I just, we need to set up a few things around age. Mixed metaphors. Because I always feel better after we talk. And the fly is going, Thats so interesting, because I do not.. Martha Beck: Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices. And they were not a happy people. And theres nothing more important and wonderful to us than the TV couch time at night. Ro offers us the concept of a Wild INventurean adventure we dream up from within, something thrilling and bold that is also uniquely our own. Rowan Mangan: Martha Beck: And its so nice that Bev asked about that because my whole brain is all sort of turned that direction as I read through this beautiful, wonderful book. Im sorry. I have one more to go. We love you so much. And you go zipping about, you get caught in the web of someone who is already entitled, and then they get angry at you if you dont serve them the way their mother did or whatever. Like there was no option to not sit on the couch together. Well, and they feel the undeniability of it, thats what happened with us. Im going to spend a ton of money to go on Martha Becks-. Were already laughing around here because today we have a double date with some of our favorite people. You both wear pants. "Its The Procrastination Episode of Bewildered, People talk about shower thoughts as those b. Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning, Martha Beck, author of self-help books. It basically means putting such a high level of attention on someone else's needs and well-being that you actually forget about yourself and what you need. In both writing and editing, I produce polished, professional work to tight deadlines. Its deeper than that Glennon. Row is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland, which I didnt know and Im very excited for you Rowan. If so, let us hear from you! Can you email me that so I can tell the kids thats what Im doing when Im watching The Real Housewives of wherever. Anyway. Rowan Mangan: We were like, oh my God. And the three of us, we went into a very strange interlude, like strange. So if youre in with a spider and you start to say, Oh, what about me? I remember talking to one woman who was, she was a client. And I have to tell you, he was living with Karen and me when Row entered the picture and I thought, hows this going to fly with him? Podcast with her wife Martha Beck, she also runs the Wild Adventures newsletter and community on Substack. Rowan Mangan: About Martha: I had this bizarre reaction where I felt like I had been hit by a train full of joy, just wham, so much happiness. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Do you think that with people who do feel entitled to that quality of care taking or whatever, do you think you can like restructure a relationship with them thats not based on that? Whats stupid ass things do people say that hurt your feelings? Theres some ego work. Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. I have literally been called the antichrist in public and I always I responded, I thought that he would be taller. Im going to go get Thai food. And left. You think you should cook, you should clean, you should get Lila, give her a bath. No ones thinking about happenings. This double date is a first for us because We Can Do Hard Things listeners, Martha and Rowan are missing one person, who is Karen, because Martha and Rowan and Karen are in a polyamorous relationship. Martha Beck: And if youre listening to this and you think, Im trying to figure something out. You were one of the first people that we called in search of health and advice because we didnt know how to kind of approach our love in the public eye and like you Glennon and at the time, and I was learning about deep integrity and speaking the truth and never lying early in my sobriety days, you just gave us the best piece of advice, which is just all you need to do is love each other. Hosted by Laura Cathcart Robbins, a writer and a recovery thriver and survivor, Laura found herself in an all too familiar position. Trinity time. She has survived childhood sexual abuse, and removed herself from the Mormon church. I honestly, Ive got to tell you, Marty, I wasnt that invested in the outcome of the question. Like thats part of their sense of themselves in the world. And you just feel like, Really? Rowan Mangan: Actually Bucephalus was Alexander the Greats horse. Martha Beck: Rowan Mangan: Bewildered is produced by Scott Forster with support from the brilliant team at MBI. Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. 4. And Im like, What happened out there? And she told me Do you mind that Im telling this? Hosted by Cristen Conger. Martha Beck: Plus Karens a morning lark and were both night owls, so we got the whole shift covered. Martha Beck: The heartbeat of OzHarvest. And the way this one book framed, it was like, its interesting because we, as human beings decide that jealousy is something that we cannot experience, but thats not how we feel about anger or sadness or heartbreak. Sunday morning is dont get out of bed. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. Learn more about your ad choices. It was such a strange and wonderful thing for me. But you didnt want to make that honesty hurt my feelings or something. Sign up below to receive information about the upcoming Wayfinder Master Coach Training. 3. It's the best podcast app and works on Android, iPhone, and the web. Youre a fly. We dont have your exact situation, but we do have three parents. Then I left Mormonism and started practicing polygamy. Martha Beck: The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. Wandering The Path by Punch Deck | https://soundcloud.com/punch-deck, Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com, Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License, *required fields are marked with an asterisk. So lets just get straight to a good working definition of codependency. Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster and mom to a vivacious toddler. So actually Ive changed more in positive ways. We rehearsed it. And its still the worst thing you can do for everyone involved. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. And thank you for the work youre putting out in the world. Its Karen and Adam. I watched in awe from my home while this simple phrase from Untamed WE CAN DO HARD THINGS the mantra that saved my life twenty years ago, became a worldwide rally cry. And that cut right to the day that Karen came to me because she got to know Rowan better than I really did and they were hanging out together a lot. Rowan Mangan: https://linktr.ee/normalgossip,

The official podcast of the HBO Original Limited Series, We Own This City. Thats how I got out, get research credit for saving your life. So Im curious about, this is obviously a psychological phenomenon, but theres also culture at play in encouraging that kind of behavior. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices. And then when the two kids are down, we have Trinity time, which is the best part of the day. martha beck two wives. And some cuddles while we watch television. Right. 4. Tell me, Marty, what are you trying to figure out this week? You were a little bit, yeah. On the floor with my legs to either side. Thats how bad they were about it. Rowan Mangan: This means that every time you visit this website you will need to enable or disable cookies again. IG: @rowan_mangan Comments? Shes like, So mom, now theres three of us and da, da, da. Shes just telling her. We do not do things. Examining the relationships, decisions, and travels that led her to today - from hitchhiking across Ireland, to prosecuting child sex offenders in Rwanda, to making the biggest decision of her life in an Ethiopian airport - they dive into Amanda's lifelong fear of the ordinary. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Normal Gossip delivers juicy, strange, funny, and utterly banal gossip about people youll never know and never meet. Martha Beck: Theres two men and a woman and she gets to make all the rules and tells people what And thats what, I get it. Get there some way, because life is hell. Yeah. * How many virtuous mothers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? 836 following. I want to know what they were feeling and thinking at that moment because the culture is not interesting to me. And yet, our culture calls it "virtuous." To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy, Learn more about your ad choices. Come up with it now., Rowan Mangan: We sat down. For me, its that keep your heart 100% open and be willing to be told where your blind spots are and to listen when somebody else, even if theyre upset, listen to them. You havent talked about this a ton publicly. I cant lift that thing. And the TV was on and it was a documentary about bears, which the narrator pronounced bear. And we have what we call morning communion, which is at least an hour long of just being together and the babys zipping around and were just connecting. When I came out to my mom, my moms first question to me was, Well, do you have one of those strappy things?. And it originally was about, its so funny because a book by Melody Beattie called Codependent No More kind of got the whole concept into the collective psyche and that book, her books, helped me so much. Like jealousy does come up, but its not like just because jealousy might be there that its a deal breaker for a relationship. Wow. Just stay in bed, read, Sunday snuggles, coffee in bed. After a difficult upbringing, Martha Beck went on to have a child with Down's syndrome, marry a gay man and realise that she, too, was gay. And she said, I just dont know how I feel about the fact that you are both just assuming that Im codependent. And thats when Marty and I looked at each other, Thats a compliment were paying you, thinking youre codependent. And thats when we realized that the culture is inside us. Yeah. We would make Row go to sleep in the family room. Is that how you describe? She just doesnt care. Theyre always, I dont know, firing up a forge in the basement. I love it and I am so grateful and it just speaks to my heart and I take away such wisdom. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Nobodys that codependent. Rowan Mangan: Im a self-help mother. So I do want to know how that goes. Its amaze balls. And it will pull you into such adventures. Lets say youre a baby, youre a child, everythings great. I mean, Mormonism had defined the enemies of the church in the latter days as gay people, intellectuals and feminists. So it was just the weirdness, like just what you would imagine. We said, What happened? And you said, I cant explain it with language. She said, Im having very unusual feelings about Row. I was like, really? They are stuck only seeing what affects them. Yes. Anyway. I mean, we have friends who have come to us and said, listen, just like along the way, I realized that my identity is queer. No problem. Because if it did, the way of integrity would have demanded that I tell it. I wonder how similar your experiences with that in terms of having to teach the people like us right now, like here we are asking you hopefully not too personal questions. And whats so interesting. Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. And I think thats like 95%. And so its just, honestly, its the best case scenario. 1. So then were in Africa that time and Row We go out to see the animals and were silent. Yeah. But codependency can make you feel exhausted, burnt out, and resentful toward those youve been helping, especially when they feel entitled to your over-giving. 1. Please note: This is an unedited transcript, provided as a courtesy, and reflects the actual conversation as closely as possible. I'm currently redrafting a novel about Ireland, magic and the dangers of charm, which is due to be completed in late 2018. So Karen goes down to Florida to visit her mother, whos 80 what? And you always say, That taught me to be a good helper, and you are crazy good at helping. And we were like, yeah, we get that. And of course, we immediately started groveling to your friend because thats what a good codependent does. Go back. Rowan Mangan: Also later, you probably, Ive never mentioned this, I went to Harvard. The thing was shed already spent enough time with the three of us to feel the energy. Rowan Mangan: We knew we were solid with Row, we had no questions. This is a big one. Nothing has happened. I had no control. Its so good to see your faces. And she got to be queen for a day and get her a new washer-dryer. Martha Beck: Because they might cause heartbreak. But what Martha didnt know is that I was also working with her because I have a superpower about being the ultimate teachers pet. I think Bev has pretty much figured it out via this. The good news? Rowan Mangan: Rowan Mangan: Its just your way of love. And Im like, you dont know my kids. Like we feel very connected in a family way. What I do, is not advisable, and that is I go to passive aggressive, I get sick, so that I literally physically cant, and then Im trying even though Im sick to do something. Our codependent little hearts. Its basically putting someone elses wellbeing and behaviors at such a high level of attention in your mind that you actually forget yourself. Rowan Mangan: But Trinity time is coming. Through in-depth stories from a wide range of characters from people who tried to stop the attack to those who took part hosts Andrea Bernstein and Ilya Marritz explore the ongoing effort to bring autocracy to America, the lasting damage that effort is doing to our democracy, and the fate of our attempts to combat those anti-democratic forces. So when you get into those arguments that couples have over and over, it breaks the pattern. And I dont know if all non-binary people are amazing, but damn, these one does. But when we talk about jealousy, most people, their reason I could never be in a polyamorous relationship because of jealousy. We are obsessed with fighting because we just, I dont know. She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. I was making a salad and looking at the TV and the man said, The mother bear will not do things for her cubs that they have learned to do for themselves, for this would make them ill equipped to survive in the wild. And I was like, Wait, wait. And I looked at these three very competent human beings whom I was serving dinner. She was holding a jar of sauce at arm's length, trying to read the small print on it. 2015-2023. 3. Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. So at that point, Ive lost whos who in this scenario, but say the fly is a girl fly, identifies CIS female, gets caught in a web and says, Oh, okay. - Rowan Mangan welcome! And Karen and I had to learn to give shots. But really the only reason we say, wait, what is because weve been culturally conditioned to believe in monogamy. This ones ab, SPOTIFY AND THE BEWILDERED PODCAST But its like, is this optional? And sometimes its more interesting to hear about what you all are trying to figure out. out todayInv. Martha Beck: Thank you. if theyre not endangering life or country or whatever, let them do it the way they do it. You can. And we come back from this silent thing where weve been seeing like right up close to lions and elephants and rhinoceros and things, and Row is crying. So with our podcast bewildered and its Were always about like, wheres the culture here? Well, I have to actually acknowledge Martha. And thats how codependency feels. TW: @TheMarthaBeck How can we do that, do you think, Marty? Because thats the whole thing of codependents, youre trying to figure out what another persons psyche is doing so that you can fill all their needs before they get upset. Wow. We read them all and love them. I mean, now parts of it are, but its still considered super weird. Not the internet, the spider web. Rowan Mangan: Rowan Mangan: Thats it. Its stressful because youre sexualizing yourself in front of your parents-. Relationships with depression are like any other. Really? And I came home and I was like, no screens, right. Keep these comming, 2023 Podvine, LTD. All rights reserved. I think its just like that thing where I dont I think its just the way that humans sort of come apart and come together clump and everything is always unique. But can we just pause and repeat what Rowan said? Made in , 1. And that becomes, do you have one of those strappy things, right. So its somebody telling the truth as they see it. And also Martha, can you tell me how old your children are from your previous marriage and how old your current younger child is? So we would just talk about how to help Row feel like it was solid because we both knew it was. Circumstantially polyamorous, a memoir. And this is another episode of Bewildered, the podcast for people trying to figure it out. Not at the time we got together, but a long time ago I had three kids. And the way they express their love is to capture the fly and wrap it up alive in a little torturous straight jacket. Be sure to rate, review and follow the show on Apple Podcasts Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast. What we realize. And so I thought, oh, is he going to think this is so weird? Each story takes on something essential about California -- its progressiveness, its reputation as a home for dreamers and schemers, its heartbreaking inequality, its varied and diverse communities, its unique combination of dense cities and wild places -- and each season breaks it down into multiple 20-40 minute episodes that will be released sequentially. Or, No, no, Marty, you actually do sound passive aggressive. And I didnt believe it either. This should make me upset but it doesnt. So its not going to happen. And a review would be also be wonderful. Eavesdrop on life as it's lived. Dont go do all the things. Kettlebells, the baby. Martha Beck: Martha Beck: Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. So Abby, theres certain people who identify as polyamorous and thats part of their sexuality.